Mish auction changes

[Anonymous Mammal]

Let Mish sell others' items (for a commission).
This would indeed be a nice feature. It would help in those situations where players just don't trust the person selling the items. Mish would be the perfect middle-man.

[golson]

I like mish auctioning things, it mixes stuff up and makes things interesting.

However, I think we have mish working somewhat backwards. I understand you don't want mish to just spam people with meaningless auctions, however, by setting it so she only auctions the most limited items this means the most sought after items in the game will never pop again.

Why kill the pheonix or emperor tharune, or venture through masters? to pop the stuff on them. Now nothing will pop on them as it will be sold by mish.

People won't have any idea where anything even pops because nothing will ever actually pop on the mobs, if its worth wearing it will just be sold from mish.

I think you may want to limit the things mish sells to potions and magical items like staffs etc, or better yet, to non limited items.

for people with max classes there is not much to do. One thing to do was to search the zone after reboots for items that popped. Also one way to build a set before was with mud knowledge, this will become a non factor if everything simply is sold via mish.

People only kill certian mobs to try to get their items, or risk zones like dream realm, masters etc... to pop items. Now people will exp, then sit in guild and hope mish sells something nice. A person can build their entire set with just some cash, without ever leaving guild.

Mostly I think it is fun and a challenge to pop limiteds and it rewards daring and mud knowledge. lets reverse mish, have her not sell the limit 1 items that people would have to learn how to pop and seek out.

[Tynian]

I recently discovered that limited items were not purging once their purge time was met. I caused those items to purge. What that means is that there are a lot of limited items that are floating around. Once things settle a bit, I will set it so items have a chance of popping on the mobs that they are intended for.

That said, here is why Mish auctioning limited items is not as harmful as you think, and might even be beneficial to the game overall:

The most sought over limited items are not on their mobs anyway. Your point is intuitive. On the surface, it makes sense. But let's face it, if the limited item is any good, it was snatched up long ago. The motivation to go explore because you might find something neat just isn't there, because the nifty stuff will almost certainly not be there. The exploration factor has not changed with Mish auctioning limited items. People won't learn where things pop, beucase those things will not be on those mobs.

Oh, where has the mud knowledge gone? You contend that this change will reduce mud knowledge. I say that's possible. But then again, I don't think it will reduce it much. Why? Because the really sought after items don't pop much. Thus it is unlikely knowledge will be built based on where you discover things popping. Rather, you'll find out because someone tells you where something pops. But it's to the advantage of those "in the know" not to tell -- less competition for the nice stuff. I'd argue that we're not awash in mud knowledge right now. Mish auctioning limited items won't reduce knowledge much, if at all.

Mish auction neutralizes the former owner's advantage for repopping a purged item. So long as a knowledgable player logs on their character regularly, s/he stands a very good chance of retrieving an item that has purged, since the first game notification that an item has purged is given to the character when it is logged in. The end effect is that in a lot of cases, people are hoarding limited items, and there's very little actual turnover, or a chance that someone other than the incumbent will get the item. While the purge code was a good first step to frustrate limited item hoarding, it was not particularly effective.

Mish auctions give gold value. Mish only takes gold. Mish sells sought after items -- she does not take trades.

Mish auctions are no different than others' auctions. Whether someone goes and pops and item and sells it or Mish does it makes little practical difference.

May stimulate player activity. You may be more inclined to be online, in the event Mish auctions something great. And if you are online, you may get involved with other game activities. Yes, a few "mays" there. But, you certainly aren't involved with the game if you are offline. If you are online, you're more likely to get involved.

Build a set just by picking up Mish auction items? Why fixate on how people build their sets? Do you honestly feel like most people build their sets by grabbing top tier limiteds? Or is it likely that most people build their sets by a combination of methods: randoming, popping limiteds, buying from auctions (Mish or otherwise), trades, PKs, and gifts from friends, fellow followers, etc.?

In summary, I agree that items should have a chance to pop, and I'll address that in the fullness of time. But Mish auctioning limited items isn't a big deal.

[morgaine]

At first I was frustrated, I logged on and the 4 dmg no drop piercer I was hoarding until I had a chance to give to a guardian in need had become one of the newest mish auction items. The I heard that golsen bought it, and I was even more agitated. Unfortunately, and fortunately, I also knew that I had this item in my inventory for the past couple months, and i certainly deserved to loose it. I guess the bottem line for me is... I wish I could be around more to take advantage of some of these mish auctions :) Unfortunately, Ive never been as busy as I am right now... But Kudos to Tynian! I shared some of golsen's view points until you broke it down in explanation, and I tend to agree. The mish auctions solve several potential tfc hazards and do bring value to gold... hopefully this will restimulate the economy..... Of course we need more players for this to happen, and hopefully mish auctions will help that as well. I'm thrilled to see such an excellent idea implemented. Thank you.

-Morgaine Belle' Rose, Ethereal Night, Guardian of the Cerulean Order.

[golson]

First let me say I agree that Mish auctioning does give gold value, does give some incentive to be online, and is a good change. However, I think all of that would be true even if Mish did not sell any limited items, and in that instance, all of the negatives would be avoided.

It is true that the most sought after items are not usually on the mobs. However, with the purge code working, it isn't that the items don't pop it is simply that they do not stay on the mobs for long since everyone wants them. The fact that the items aren't usually on the mobs means 2 things. One people wear them and don't usually leave them in their inventory. More importantly, as soon as anyone notices one popping or kills the mob and finds it in its inventory, they keep it, unlike lesser limiteds. So just because you don't see the items on mobs does not mean that people aren't popping them, it in fact means the opposite, it means they get popped quickly.

As to the difference between mish auctioning something and a pc popping it and auctioning it? The difference is in the value of giving players incentive to actively play rather than just chat in guild. As it is, reboots are one of the few times when level 50s leave guild. That incentive is removed when mish gets the items and sells them instead.

Why does it matter how one builds a set? It doesn't much matter whether a person builds a set from randoming or pking, each requires active playing and each bears its risks and hopefully leads to mud knowledge and skill. Sitting at mish does neither.

I know you recognize the importance to the game of out of safe time as opposed to guild time. That is why you spent so much time coding to encourage it. The difference between building a set off mish is that it removes the element of active play outside of safe rooms.

I also would point out that people do learn a lot while repopping limiteds. I personally have led many groups through masters, dream realm, candlespyre and other zones. Places they would not have gone without the hope of popping nice items. What is being lost here is the fact that many nice items require large groups to be popped. This inevitably means mud knowledge is spread, that's how people have learned for a long long time. You tag along and help a group once or twice and next time you can lead your own.

Lastly, here is a suggestion: move mish. Move mish, almost anywhere. Put her in a safe room, but require people to journey to claim equipment, put them at risk of pk, thieves etc... Or have mish wander, point is lets make people actually leave safe. Let's face it at lvl 50 once you have topped your mobmasteries off there is not much to do but try to increase your set. If mish is the easiest way to do so (which it now is) why risk your set, why leave guild if there is not anything to pop anyway?

If you want to increase mud knowledge and you want items to stay popped on mobs longer so people have a chance to pop them, institute nyx's idea. Have all items pop all the time, however, when over limit have them pop with an inventory flag so they poof as soon as killed. This means people can always locate them or see the items on mobs: creating the opportunity for them to learn where items pop. This also means you can't just locate an item during a reboot to know it is repopping. You have to actually go and kill every mob nice items pop on to see if any popped. That would encourage mud activity.

Keep mish too, just have mish sell randoms and items sold from fines as well as god+ items. Maybe throw in a 1hp to stats etc every once in awhile.

Another idea, if you are keeping mish's auctioning of limited items, greatly inflate the prices at which mish sells limiteds (not randoms) so people have to pay for not knowing how to pop the item. Ie -4svs light, min bid 500k. If some one buys it at least it cost a ton so hopefully they will need to go raise gold. If they don't, it tells everyone online that the item is now going to pop (if i undestand how it works) so it encourages people to be online for auctions. I still think Mish shouldnt auction limiteds, but this would at least decrease the problem somewhat.

[boromir]

Greetings!

First things first:
Mish auctioning stuff is great!!!! ::up::

Second:
I agree with golson's comment about making limiteds more costly altho I would restrict it to true limiteds and not just higher value eq.

Third:
Putting Mish somewhere else outside of the guild will be tough to keep "fair" as no matter where she is placed, it will be more difficult for people from the other continent to get to.
I have a solution that does not require Mish to be moved :D Mish remains in the guild auctioning items and collecting gold. Two 'storerooms' are set up, 1 on each continent where the purchasers of the auctioned item can pick the auctioned and paid-for item up. The pick-up point would be a safe room with multiple (i.e more than 3 entrances/exits) access points to include some in and out of the zone the 'storeroom' is in. Why the multiple exits? Pker's know that when someone buys an item they will go and get their item so they will wait just outside safe to 'relieve' the purchaser of that item and any more that they can get. This gives the purchaser an even chance of getting away or at least holding the item for a few. Oh, the pickup point will no-recall/ no-portal/ no-teleport and be a 1 person room ... aside from the mob dispersing of the item. If need be, the entrance used to get to the pickup room can be a 1 way passage so the person picking it up has to leave via another exit. :>

Fourth:
Having Mish auction items for someone would be interesting. A few conditions would be that the item must be stored on mish and that once the item is sold, any mortal-cast spells like wizard-mark etc be cleaned by Mish prior to the item being picked up. Also, the only person who can claim the item is the purchaser.

Your considered opinions! ::up::

[Tynian]

It is difficult to avoid the temptation of reiterating what I said in my original reply, but I will try to resist. Instead, I will focus on points I did not already respond to or make previously. Wish me luck! ::pleased::


Lastly, here is a suggestion: move mish.

I am not necessarily opposed to moving Mish. But I don't feel strongly about it one way or another.


Have all items pop all the time, however, when over limit have them pop with an inventory flag so they poof as soon as killed.

I've given this some thought, and it would be a fundemental change to the equipment system. What you propose might increase activity... in the short term. But: Since everyone would know where the nice items pop, randoms would be pointless. Why random when you could go get the sure bet? Along that same vein, the proposed change would destroy what you indicated as one of the only motivations for 50s leaving guild. Once you have the perfect set, you'd have nothing else to do. Plus, it's going to be difficult to differentiate your character, when the exact same gear is gettable by everyone in the world. The inventory flag is meaningless in this context. So what if the item vanishes? Just go get another. There's an infinite number of them available.

Not to mention that this proposal devalues gold even more. Infinite supply, no demand.

This is not the way to go.


Another idea, if you are keeping mish's auctioning of limited items, greatly inflate the prices at which mish sells limiteds (not randoms) so people have to pay for not knowing how to pop the item.

I disagree.

I prefer to be more inclusive with Mish auctions, not exclusive. Your goal is to punish those that don't go out and pop something themselves, for whatever reason. My goal is to get the equipment to those that will use it. These two goals do not seem compatible.

[Tynian]

Greetings!
I have a solution that does not require Mish to be moved :D Mish remains in the guild auctioning items and collecting gold. Two 'storerooms' are set up, 1 on each continent where the purchasers of the auctioned item can pick the auctioned and paid-for item up. The pick-up point would be a safe room with multiple (i.e more than 3 entrances/exits) access points to include some in and out of the zone the 'storeroom' is in.

Respectfully, I don't see the point of doing this, or for moving Mish, now that I've thought about it a bit more.

I direct you to HELP LIMITED:


Currently, every hour spent outside of safe rooms will add 1 week to the purge time of a WORN limited item. The more time you spend out of safe rooms wearing a limited item causes the purge time to be pushed out. For example, spending a total of 3 hours out of safe rooms will cause worn limited items to purge 3 weeks later, given the current settings. There is a limit to how much purge time can be "banked" in this manner (a few months).

If you don't leave safe, your limited items will purge.

[Anonymous Mammal]

Have all items pop all the time, however, when over limit have them pop with an inventory flag so they poof as soon as killed. I've given this some thought, and it would be a fundemental change to the equipment system. What you propose might increase activity... in the short term. But: Since everyone would know where the nice items pop, randoms would be pointless. Why random when you could go get the sure bet? Along that same vein, the proposed change would destroy what you indicated as one of the only motivations for 50s leaving guild. Once you have the perfect set, you'd have nothing else to do. Plus, it's going to be difficult to differentiate your character, when the exact same gear is gettable by everyone in the world. The inventory flag is meaningless in this context. So what if the item vanishes? Just go get another. There's an infinite number of them available.Actually, if you think about it, the inventory flag would make the items unobtainable. If the limited pops over limit and gains the inventory flag, it would be destroyed the moment you killed the mob to obtain it... unless it was something that does not pop on a mob. But, I agree, it's not a good idea.

[Tynian]

Ha, that is a good point.

[Otak]

First let me say I agree that Mish auctioning does give gold value, does give some incentive to be online, and is a good change. However, I think all of that would be true even if Mish did not sell any limited items, and in that instance, all of the negatives would be avoided.

It is true that the most sought after items are not usually on the mobs. However, with the purge code working, it isn't that the items don't pop it is simply that they do not stay on the mobs for long since everyone wants them. The fact that the items aren't usually on the mobs means 2 things. One people wear them and don't usually leave them in their inventory. More importantly, as soon as anyone notices one popping or kills the mob and finds it in its inventory, they keep it, unlike lesser limiteds. So just because you don't see the items on mobs does not mean that people aren't popping them, it in fact means the opposite, it means they get popped quickly.

As to the difference between mish auctioning something and a pc popping it and auctioning it? The difference is in the value of giving players incentive to actively play rather than just chat in guild. As it is, reboots are one of the few times when level 50s leave guild. That incentive is removed when mish gets the items and sells them instead.

Why does it matter how one builds a set? It doesn't much matter whether a person builds a set from randoming or pking, each requires active playing and each bears its risks and hopefully leads to mud knowledge and skill. Sitting at mish does neither.

I know you recognize the importance to the game of out of safe time as opposed to guild time. That is why you spent so much time coding to encourage it. The difference between building a set off mish is that it removes the element of active play outside of safe rooms.

I also would point out that people do learn a lot while repopping limiteds. I personally have led many groups through masters, dream realm, candlespyre and other zones. Places they would not have gone without the hope of popping nice items. What is being lost here is the fact that many nice items require large groups to be popped. This inevitably means mud knowledge is spread, that's how people have learned for a long long time. You tag along and help a group once or twice and next time you can lead your own.

Lastly, here is a suggestion: move mish. Move mish, almost anywhere. Put her in a safe room, but require people to journey to claim equipment, put them at risk of pk, thieves etc... Or have mish wander, point is lets make people actually leave safe. Let's face it at lvl 50 once you have topped your mobmasteries off there is not much to do but try to increase your set. If mish is the easiest way to do so (which it now is) why risk your set, why leave guild if there is not anything to pop anyway?

If you want to increase mud knowledge and you want items to stay popped on mobs longer so people have a chance to pop them, institute nyx's idea. Have all items pop all the time, however, when over limit have them pop with an inventory flag so they poof as soon as killed. This means people can always locate them or see the items on mobs: creating the opportunity for them to learn where items pop. This also means you can't just locate an item during a reboot to know it is repopping. You have to actually go and kill every mob nice items pop on to see if any popped. That would encourage mud activity.

Keep mish too, just have mish sell randoms and items sold from fines as well as god+ items. Maybe throw in a 1hp to stats etc every once in awhile.

Another idea, if you are keeping mish's auctioning of limited items, greatly inflate the prices at which mish sells limiteds (not randoms) so people have to pay for not knowing how to pop the item. Ie -4svs light, min bid 500k. If some one buys it at least it cost a ton so hopefully they will need to go raise gold. If they don't, it tells everyone online that the item is now going to pop (if i undestand how it works) so it encourages people to be online for auctions. I still think Mish shouldnt auction limiteds, but this would at least decrease the problem somewhat.


i think these are all rediculously great ideas.

[morgaine]

In theory the idea of limiteds and inventory flags sounds great, but ...

An inventory flag would only make some items unattainable. The spells weaken, poison, and chill touch could make many no drop weapons attainable ((I think)), others could be disarmed.... most items in inventory could be stolen.... further, any humanoid mob can be charmed and forced to hand over their bounty.

That said, I disagree with this idea.

Further ... ... whats the point of a 50 sitting in GH and building a set if they aren't going to leave gh and ever use it? How are they going to get gold to purchase mish auctions if they don't leave guild to fundraise... did merrick and guido start paying interest? It seems that all new coding implemented receives negative feedback somewhere.... i suppose this is just the nature of the beast. I'm torn... because I love mish auctions but i do see some validity behind all sides of the story... personally, I'm willing to ride it out and observe the actual results before I start pointing fingers... I'm sure if problems arise more suggestions will emerge, ... maybe mish should have a random chance at selling the limited item, 60/40 she does/doesn't? I dunno.... but compromise is key to survival.

-Morgaine

[eldric]

I think they are really good ideas as well. I think it will make game play more interesting.

[Straezan]

I don't think this is possible, anyway. I haven't seen Mish auction anything that would upgrade any decent set of eq you or I might already have. Those few items that *might* be considered an upgrade to our sets are limited, and therefore pretty useless to any guild-sitting player.

Now once Mish starts auctioning nonmetal non-limited dmg4 or dmg5 combos and da5 stuffs or dex7 items, that could lead to upgrades...

Golson, you could sit around the guild for the next few months and wait for that to happen. The rest of us will be a bit more realistic about building sets and upgrading... ;)

Here's a thought, though: How about making limiteds not show on 'locate object'? Then you'd just have to go see if something is popping...

[morgaine]

It seems that mish auctions are driving mish away from her foremost intentions, as a broker.... Now she is an auctioneer instead.

I for one believe that Mish has become aqn extremely unethicle business woman! I set up a mish bid, and she charges me a fee to do so... in that When i take the bid down I loose x y z %, depending on how long it sat for. I have had bids sit for a year and be disregarded at a loss of 200k ... because the item never came in... yet that was the risk i took, knowing I was on the top of the list and that if an item did come in it would come to me. Now, she receives and item and auctions it to whoever is lucky enough to be around, making the minimum bid slightly higher then the bids she has accepted months earlier as a broker.... So lets say I had a 200k bid on a 4dmg a 4dmg come in, she sells it to someone else for 250k.... even though I waited 11 months for the item to come in, and now my 200k is only worth 25k if i drop the bid.

If there is a bid in for an item mish should be selling the item to the bidder who has been searching the longest...and has the highest mish bid.... because she has a contract with that person to hand over any such item she finds and is paid WAY in advance before the item shows up.....

This could bring the trickiness of mish back and help build the economy as it would force people to use her the way intended rather then relying upon the moment something goes up for grabs, and having a bid war.... forcing people to set predetermined bids would set more predetermined values to items that could then be sold player to player through mish.... ... i don't know if what im trying to say is coming through but bottom line mish should give items to the predetermined bidders before offering them to the public... this would also allow players who have to go inactive for any given period for personal reasons to protect their limiteds with mish bids.


and in response to the let mish id items idea? I'm not sure where I stand, but avangeline is waaaay to expensive for newbies considering that 19 out of 20 randoms aren't very useful, and those on the southern continent cant get to her without waiting an hour for the ship.....

[Anonymous Mammal]

Mish is a greedy wench. Why else would she charge more than Merrick or Guido for doing the same services? It certainly isn't a convenience fee. Why else would she keep a large portion of your bid money when you cancel the search? Greed! Mish is in it to make money. Remember that she's trying to buy a wish. If you're not online to collect your bid-for item when it comes in, she starts looking for someone else to sell it to for an increased price. Greedy, money-starved wench!

Other than that, I think I would have to agree with what Morgaine is saying.

[Tynian]

It seems that mish auctions are driving mish away from her foremost intentions, as a broker.... Now she is an auctioneer instead.


Strictly speaking, making money is her foremost intentions, but I understand what you mean.



If there is a bid in for an item mish should be selling the item to the bidder who has been searching the longest...and has the highest mish bid.... because she has a contract with that person to hand over any such item she finds and is paid WAY in advance before the item shows up.....

I struggled this this. Ultimately, I went with the most money made solution, reasoning, that one could still keep their items if they put in a bid higher than everyone else's.

I'd be interested to know what others think.

[morgaine]

i think i was misunderstood..


what i ment was yes, the highest bid should win... but the mish bid

locate type armor wear head ac 5 extra ae aff dam 4 bid 200k


should come in before

mish auctions ac 5 4dmg leather headdress, min bid 250k

[Tynian]

I have made a slight change to Mish, auctions, and locate.

Items with open locates will still go up for bid. But if they fail to sell the first time, the 'locate' bid is accepted, and the items is taken off of auction.

[morgaine]

Thank You

[Anduin]

How about she stops selling limiteds? Just let them purge so people have to re-pop them instead. Promotes exploration and makes people earn them - as intended.

[Tynian]

The answer is no.