Thug skill ideas

[kaern]

Here are some skill ideas for thugs. Seeing as thugs are a rogue class but are "street savvy", in my mind their toolbox is fight-oriented stuff that doesn't cause a lot of extra damage. First is a cross-post from the idea list (I've been told I should post here instead?):

Preemptive strike / First attack (*automatic*)

Thug skill where player gets a chance to hit first when attacked by an aggressive mob or player. Since all this would be is an extra blow, it seems that a high chance of success as a thug gets more powerful wouldn't be imbalancing.

Dirty fighting (*automatic*)

Similar to spec_fight_dirty on mobs...it's the way thugs learned how to fight. Stuff like raking fingernails has a chance of paralyzing opponent for a battle tick or two. Has zero chance of throwing successfully if thug is recovering from a minor fumble (e.g. You do all you can to defend yourself). Even a level 30 thug with this skill should probably have dirty-fighting skills happen slightly less frequently than dirty-fighting mobs do it...as I recall, the mobs go crazy with this stuff and that would be too much.

Box

Boxing of opponent's ears to temporarily cause deafness. Similar to blynd, this has a higher chance of success than the spell at an equivalent level, but can only be tried once per fight and doesn't last as long.

[damian]

I particularly like the first idea. I think they're all good, but I think the first one would be particularly nice.

[kaern]

These are both related to the thug's general view of the world and its inhabitants.

Wary (*automatic*)

Thugs are inherently skeptical, and even the good ones who are more inclined to trust others still keep an eye out for potential sketchiness. A lifetime of this has enabled thugs to sometimes be able to detect sneaking and hiding, as well as deflect backstabs, since they have a chance of seeing it coming.

Light sleep (*automatic*)

Far from enabling thugs to somnambulate around with wild abandon (though don't they wish), this just lets thugs be aware of some of the things occurring around them even while they sleep.

[Rincewind]

I don't like the sleep idea, but maybe thugs are sooo suspicious that sneak doesn't work on them after level 20. "box" is a very workable and very good idea IMO

[Kurix]

I still personally think being unable to steal as a thug is kind of lame since its a metal/thief class. How about something like this:

////
Cut-purse:

Can only be used in combat.
Attempts to steal a bag from the enemy's inventory and then flees.
////

Could make the bag stolen be random and/or lower the chance of it working or have a chance of something bad happening if it fails to balance it out. Wouldn't allow for stealthy "thief like" stealing, but would be more useful than mug since stealing gold is pretty pointless.

[kaern]

The cut-purse idea is terrific, I think it strikes a good balance especially with the following involved:

1. Requires battle engagement to be attempted.
2. Not always successful, of course.
3. Targets random container in victim's inventory.
4. Contents spill on ground so victim can still reclaim items.
5. This would be really cool: higher chance of success based on %-full of container.

[kaern]

Hmm I took it in a different direction with the whole contents getting spilled part. On second thought maybe it's better that the contents don't go everywhere so bags aren't getting destroyed willy-nilly...but then again that's what happens when containers are flamed....guess it's a toss up to me...others may have an opinion either way.

It seems from an RP and coding perspective it may not make sense for the skill to destroy bags since the container in question may not be susceptible to being cut open (e.g., bucket).

So revise my comment to exclude #4 but the others still stand!

[Schwartz]

Thanks for all the great suggestions. I'm definitely interested in increasing the skills available to thugs (especially given I implemented the class).

I'm really stretched thin for time right now, unfortunately. Things will quiet down for me in a week or two, and I'm going to put a fair amount of thought into these suggestions as they relate to the overall direction of the class.

Thanks for being patient with me right now.

I'll leave the thread open in the meantime, and please keep the suggestions coming!

[kaern]

////
Conceal

Safeguard items of importance by keeping them hidden from prying eyes.
////

Concealing objects means they will not show up on Look or Look w/ Peek, and maybe not even locate object. Some slots cannot be concealed, such as primary weapon, worn with pride (the "with pride" part would make it weird), and probably on body and about body, but a seasoned thug could be expert at concealing his/her...you could call it bling...other worn stuff, and especially inventory items. Likely when a thug is engaged in combat, the worn stuff would no longer always be concealed successfully, but when it is it might show up to the thug as:

100hp > eq
You are wearing:
<worn on finger> (Concealed) (Token magic) the TFC '94 class ring

Whereas to others it simply won't show.

As a thug gets higher in level he/she can conceal more items, say up to 4 at level 30.

////
Intimidate

Bully others into being scared of you. Careful, you can really make enemies this way!
////

There are two main things intimidate would do:

1. Scare shopkeepers into selling things more cheaply, temporarily.
2. Make mobs/players slightly fearful for their well-being, thus handicapping stats temporarily.

The rationale is that thugs are bullies and can be good at psychological manipulation. This may be unavailable to good-aligned characters or may be available to them but blues cannot use it on blue mobs/players.

Success would be based a roll that takes levels and maybe even equipment (in the case of players) into account. A low level thug might have a small influence, say -1chr -1wis on the victim, whereas a high level thug might be capable of affecting stats across the board, say -1chr -1wis -1int -1str -1dex -1con.

Failure would have consequences, like mob aggression or in the case of players, pk justification. Shopkeeps might refuse to sell to the thug as well.

This is a really rough idea so of course feedback/tweaking is greatly appreciated.

[Belsambar]

Conceal doesn't really seem worth it...

Intimidate sounds fun, and could have some useful applications, but it should be CHR based, definitely, save and opposing roll.


Cut purse, now, why SHOULDN'T it spill items onto the ground? the RP standpoint is wonderful, however, lots and lots and lots of bags get burned, and stolen, and such, when just by the name of the item, it probly shouldn't (for example, cleaning carts are made of metal, I'm pretty sure. Also pretty sure they still burn. So they can still be cut)

IE if the bag can be burned, it should be cuttable. Besides, since you didn't propose any weapon type limitation, now it could still be possible to cutrpurse while wearing a club, for example...and I'd like to see exactly how that is possible from an rp standpoint.

Can't always account for RP with certain skill uses. Sometimes, the skill still needs to function in a certain way for game functionality, whether or not it makes sense in an rp sense.

[Rincewind]

if thugs get cutpurse I for one will be completely done with fighting them, and I bet anyone with bags of sand feels the same

[hork]

Cut-purse would be an awesome way to circulate the bags of sands. Instead of them just being on a few people.

[Rincewind]

Enough from you hurk!

[hork]

hehehhe, back then, I would not be for it of course :)

[kaern]

The current skill "mug" is entirely useless since players have so little incentive to want-gold-from-but-not-to-kill a mob in the first place. I propose the following change:

///
Mug

Scare a victim into giving you their hard-earned gold. If you fail, they're sure to fight back!
///

A successful mugging will obtain gold from the victim AND cause he/she/it to *flee once* since they want to get away from you. Failure results in no gold, engagement and pk justification in the case of player vs. player.

This would also allow Mug to have an ancillary use as a intimidation tactic. As it is, mug is even crippled to where a thug can't do it consecutively, so I don't see potential for abuse if that is kept in place.

[Belsambar]

Cut purse shouldn't steal the bag, just destroy it.

And if you're really worried about that, don't ever fight anyone or anything that destroys eq. Like dragons. Because that's all the proposition is, on a minor scale.

[Tynian]

And if you're really worried about that, don't ever fight anyone or anything that destroys eq. Like dragons. Because that's all the proposition is, on a minor scale.

I'll have to disagree with you. There's a difference between a dragon that you have to go find that can destroy equipment, and a dragon that finds YOU and destroys your equipment. Or a dragon that finds you again and again to destroy equipment, just because it wants to piss you off.

I offer no opinion on the proposed skill itself, only the analogy you used. ::cool::

[Belsambar]

Well, actual destructive skills have already been mostly tempered on the pc end....there's a reason I don't just walk into people acid blasting my brain off...not that it wouldn't be fun, but nobody goes scurrying away in fear of etch if you are giving them the just...so it could be a run-bluster-one shot if you cut the bag, or not...though, it could be really funny watching the rp implications of a really good non-pk thug....

In any case, it would also only allow for 1 attempt at destruction per login on both parties.

[morgaine]

I like thug skill ideas because well, thugs need some new skills. I don't like that the major gain from going thug seems to be " I get to wear metal EQ" because that enforces the idea that the character is only as good as the eq. Besides a mage wearing metal eq? i realise its just chain maile and other ac 8 type stuff but geeze, some of that stuff i heavy.

-Morgaine

[Anduin]

Ok I'm just procrastinating from my paper so I didn't read through all this but... I think thugs need their own unique skills but they should only get this once mages and shamans who go thug can no longer wear metal eq.

[Whistler]

as has been pointed out, thugs are not really fighters, but are bullies.

Intimidate: (level 4 thug skill)
I really like the idea of intimidating shopkeeps into selling items for lower cost, if not for free. perhaps 'intimidate <mob name>' could yeild the mob into giving the character one of its carried or worn items. oftentimes these items disappear with the death of a shopkeep, and this would give the players an alternative to charm to get held/worn items. In addition, an intimidated shopkeep should show thier intimidation, just as a charmed mob does. an intimidated shopkeeps reaction to players should be a function of thier charisma. Once intimidated, the shopkeep would refuse to deal with players whose charisma was less than that of the intimidator, (Look here you weenie wizard, i don't want you selling any more of doze recall potions, you hear, or i'll be back and let you have it!)
but if the charisma of the pc attempting interaction is greater than that of the intimidator, it could overcome the intimidation. (look, you can stand up to that bully, you're a mage!) an intimidated mob should have it's wimpy dropped to 1, and like charm, a failed attempt should initiate combat.

escape: (level 1 thug skill)
Bullies generally don't really want to fight, and in RL will often try to get out of a fight with anyone who has a chance of beating them. an escape skill would give them the ability to do this without the xp penalty for fleeing. (should they really be penalized in xp for roleplaying?) this skill should only work if the opponent cons perfect or better. the effect of success would be a combination of overriding the opponents next round of combat actions + flee. failure to escape should be treated as a failed flee attempt.

Sap: (level 8 thug skill, level 25 thief skill)
One of the reasons that people are scared of Thugs is thier ability to knock someone unconcious. a sap attempt must be a preemptive strike with a blunt weapon. success = (weapon damge)+sleep+jump. failure initiates combat.

Abduct: (higher level thug skill)
this skill would allow a thug to 'get' the sleeping body of an opponent and carry it away to another place.

ransack: like steal, but only usable on unconcious victims.