Change in effective level calculation; exploring change of maximum levels to 50

[Tynian]

I would like to change the effective level calculation for the secondary classes from 1 effective level for every 3 secondary levels, to 1 effective level for every 5 secondary levels. This change would mean that triple 30s would be effective level 42.

I would also like to test the effects of bumping the maximum levels for a class up to 50. Obviously, there would need to be a few adjustments made to accommodate that change. Testing would help determine where the trouble spots are.

[Anduin]

I like the first part of the idea because making characters a smaller effective would make some areas more challenging like they were originally intended. However, I think it would also make exping that more easier because people could exp in the same zones much longer without having to move on to new ones.

As for the second part, not a big fan. 30/30/30 seems like a good amount and going higher would mean a ton of new areas (which I'm always a fan of) but also a ton of more tedious exping. If it was implemented and turned out to be a mistake too, it wouldn't be easy or fair to revert back to 30/30/30 if people put in all that work to hit 50/50/50.

[Lycron]

i'm all for it. I've seen the same equation work elsewhere If you did press I would also suggest exploring ways to make the xp more natural. Perhaps raising the cap or looking into a new item effect - experience bonus, which would raise the experience earned by a percentage.

[Corri]

For my part, I am not sure I see the advantage. Potential disadvantages in re-balancing spell functionality (portal failure rates immediately spring to mind), pk ranges, and how the effective increase hp/mana of 10 more primary levels would play against the overall difficult of fights all come to mind.

What do others see as the advantage of the change?
What pitfalls do others see as possible concerns?

[Lycron]

Certainly this wouldn't be a change for the feint of heart. It would require a LOT of supporting code, however I see the end result to be very worth while. If I am to understand the proposal correctly it would allow one to specialize in a class. The additional levels may cause some spells to go over board if they still consider 30 to be the MAX, however; this may not be a bad thing but just one more benefit. I don't see the need to change level gains, sense all people have equal opportunity to specialize in a class. You don't want to get your butt handed to you by someone with 200 or more hps? Get out an exp! The down falls I see come more in to play when determining exp for the next levels and how much exp is earned. At the current progressive rate, level 50 ordained for instance would have disgusting exp TNL. Another thing would be creating skills and spells for level 30+ in each class to try to make them worth while. This would probably be where a bulk of the project would come in to play and would be the most refreshing part of this change. I don't really see any pitfalls, except for the grumpy people who won't want to level anymore :P

[Lycron]

Oh an addendum I'd like to add is instead of just having 50/30/30 what about a 40/40/30 option as well?

[Matthias]

Oh an addendum I'd like to add is instead of just having 50/30/30 what about a 40/40/30 option as well?

so this idea doesnt go up to 50/50/50? which is eff. 70 right?

I like the first part of the idea because making characters a smaller effective would make some areas more challenging like they were originally intended. However, I think it would also make exping that more easier because people could exp in the same zones much longer without having to move on to new ones

In response to that, we would ultimately be a bigger effective. which is almost the opposite of what youre saying.

does it only go up to eff. 50. which the highest one could level.. if you are already 30/30/30, then you can level a class 8 more to hit eff. 50 again. [38/30/30]

so maybe thats wrong.. im just trying to understand the math right now. cause exp is a big committment to me! i really dont want to be hungry/thirsty all the time! =P

So in my case, im L40.. if this was implemented id be L36.
Which means if eff. 70 is the top, me being 50/50.. id be L60. which sounds like a hell of a good idea to me, cause range between 60/70 as opposed to 40/50 is a little closer, giving me more chance to fight with these max level folks that i can barely hit!

If, im correct. I fully support the idea. Despite the fact I hate exping.

[Matthias]

On top of that, Bards should be a little bit easier to level.. considering not one has been able to reach L50 yet. L70? forget it. haha

[Totec]

On top of that, Bards should be a little bit easier to level.. considering not one has been able to reach L50 yet. L70? forget it. haha

I had the same thought.

Since there are technically two related ideas here, I like the idea of reducing the effective level of a 30/30/30. Suddenly, pvp of a triple vs a dual is on closer equal footing and giant monsters will be... GIANT.

I am not interpreting these ideas along Lycron's lines (i.e., I understood the second idea to imply 50/50/50 was possible). If new spells/abilities came with the increased levels, this could be totally cool. Given that so many of us are casual maxed-level players, giving us all a new pinnacle to climb could give us all more reason to play. Plus, allowing us to attain effective 70 suddenly makes it possible to solo some areas of the game I refuse to enter with groups, so the world opens up a little bit.

[Tynian]

Yes, the proposal would raise the maximum of all classes to 50 (EFF LEVEL 70).

And yeah, bards would be the most difficult to extend to 50s, because SO MUCH is required to get to 30 for the non-combat classes. I'm thinking mostly about the mobmasteries, which start to get slightly challenging at later levels.

[Otak]

This idea is pretty freakin rad.

[Anduin]

There are so many bad things about this and only a few positives. I really dislike it.

I see people with even MORE hp and mana, making the pk aspect of the game even harder than it already is. As Totec said, it will also make most zones much easier unless you up the levels of them (in which case it's pointless, if you raise their levels as well to balance out the difficulty level, you're basically just making us exp more to achieve the same effect we have now). All I see resulting from this is making people exp more and making the intentionally big/dangerous zones a lot easier.

The only part I like about it is making secondary classes up your eff. level every 5 levels instead of 3 because then it does sort of balance out the huge gap of dual-classes vs. triple-classes without nullifying it, and makes character eff levels smaller so the game becomes hard again (it's a lot easier now than it was due to the eq changes).

[Otak]

I see people with even MORE hp and mana, making the pk aspect of the game even harder than it already is.

A valid argument.. if you actually PKed. =P

People like you hit double/triple MASS/DEMO per round anyways. It's not enough to be able to 2/3 round someone? Maybe it'll cause people to work together to PK; that's always an option.. considering most people are friends with each other on here anyways.

I think a big change like this would increase the playerbase and jumpstart a new TFC revolution!

[Lycron]

Since HPs and mana would go up, perhaps the damroll/hitroll/da caps could go up too?

[Anduin]

^ that's kind of my point Lycron. If the change happened, a bunch of other changes would also have to occur just to make things as fair/just as they are now. In short, it's just upping everything - or not doing that and making the game REALLY easy. It's supposed to be The Final CHALLENGE.

[Matthias]

Other changes don't have to occur to make anything "fair".

It actually makes the game harder. Sure, some zones will be easier after leveling up, but thats the reward for exping and getting bigger right? [Cause I sure can take Living Lands alot easier than I used to when I was under L20.] But it's not gonna be a walk in the park to level 50/50/50. Mobs that give you exp when you're L60+ are gonna be beastly as hell.. AND harder to come across cause you won't just be able to do downstairs plant till you're max levels like people do now.

If one thing changes, everything else doesn't have to change to make it like it is now, otherwise the initial change would be pointless. I've been around for 3 years, so I don't know much about mud changes, but I can safely assume that Tynian has 5x more experience than me with playing a mud, and 50x more experience than me with running a mud, so an idea like this doesn't just come out of his a$$.

So I can't say it's a good or bad change, but I can say it sounds interesting and we'll find out once we try it.

[Tynian]

Since HPs and mana would go up, perhaps the damroll/hitroll/da caps could go up too?

damroll/hitroll/da is already high enough. In fact, one could argue that the additional levels would help us grow into our current damroll/hitroll/da numbers.

[Tynian]

I see people with even MORE hp and mana, making the pk aspect of the game even harder than it already is. As Totec said, it will also make most zones much easier unless you up the levels of them

I'd have to talk it over with Tokugawa and Tamar, but my inclination would be to bump up the levels of the "premier" mobs. There would be an XP gap where there aren't a lot of mobs in a given level range, but I'm sure area writers would step up to close that gap.

In terms of balance and other issues, that's what the testing would be for. Ultimately, we may find that this isa HORRIBLE idea, and that it presents more problems than benefits, and that it isn't worth doing. On the other hand, I feel we need to shake up the dynamic some.

[Faite]

This all sounds great for regular classes, but bards are amazingly hard to level. Tynian, how would this affect our class?

[Tynian]

This all sounds great for regular classes, but bards are amazingly hard to level. Tynian, how would this affect our class?

Are you familiar with Sisyphus?