Here's the thing about shaman (this turned out REALLY long)

**Teluin** · February 17th, 2011

Alright, people seem to want shaman to be held back. Why? Probably because they don't really play them. Why? Lots of reasons. It seems that shaman is the only class that has a give/take relationship with spells. Examples include absorb stopping helpful spells, exclude stopping a shaman's area spells, et cetera. Let's review the shaman's skills, shall we?

Rift - this is a shaman's best spell, and arguably their only [really elite] one.
Verdict: Great spell.

Absorb - this is supposed to be a shaman's protection against magic - unfortunately it blocks helpful spells, can be broken with 1 try, and can be broken in safe room.
Verdict: It's barely ok.

Cloak of protection - this is a shaman's protection against damage - it protects about 100-120hp, then breaks. When it breaks, it does not absorb the last bit of damage that broke it.
Verdict: It's ok.

Exclude - stops all area spells related to a shaman. Not only does it stop aggressive spells against a shaman, it stops a shaman from using them as well. It is also severely limited against mobs - how often do you see dragons? It also costs a ton of mana, almost never improves, and can be prac'd to good.
Verdict: Meh.

Make bag/weave - better bags are easy to get. And baskets? LOL
Verdict: Useless.

Harvest - not many zones are plentiful in plants, and it takes a ton of seeds to fill you up. If this was changed to let you harvest the food within a corpse's stomach - then it'd be useful.
Verdict: Useless (as it stands right now).

Soul sense - a shaman's version of detect invis/true seeing? Umm, no. Shaman have to wear a TS amulet - super unfair. Let's hope Tynian changes this (and not the pointless changes Pitt suggested).
Verdict: Sucks as a main detect spell.

Detect magic - self-explanatory. Except because a shaman NEEDS a TS Amulet, it's pointless.
Verdict: Useful if soul sense becomes good. As it stands, meh.

Phosphate - can pink the caster, only good for defense. Even combined with soul sense, this is not a useful spell. It's very easy to get around. Also, can only be cast in natural settings which are not THAT common.
Verdict: Meh.

Dispel evil/good - LOL
Verdict: Useless.

Sanity - this spell can remove fear and confusion which is nice. It's for shaman though so of course there's that give/take thing mentioned - can only be used outside of combat. Still a good spell though overall.
Verdict: Good.

Fear - this is an ok spell. Not THAT useful and rarely lands, but it's not terrible either.
Verdict: It's ok.

Attunement - let's you see the magical properties of a room. Semi-useful because it lets you erase wiz marks and know you've tripped an alarm. Doesn't let you step past the alarm though (which it should - dunno why people are suggesting exclude be the spell that does this).
Verdict: It's ok.

Naturalize - removes the spell properties of a room. This is one of the few spells that are good for a shaman. Sure it means your opponent can cast too, but still solid.
Verdict: Good.

Totems - wow, where to begin. These spam your score and need to ALL be cast (thus super spam). They also have 3 effects each, meaning 1 can be dispelled while the rest remain - in other words, if you have weasel totem cast it says 'weasel totem' 3 times in your score - If your dispel'd, there's a chance only the good 'weasel totem' affect gets removed leaving the 2 bad ones. These should seriously just affect 1 stat each, like strength does for mage.
Verdict: Useless (could be useful with some changes though).

Hailstorm - has to be used outside which is rare. Plus you get a much better spell shortly after.
Verdict: Pointless.

Thunderclap - a strong area spell. This spell kinda makes you not want exclude up because of the way exclude works. Still a good spell though.
Verdict: Good.

Necroport - can portal to random corpses. There's a read about making corpses stay around longer - if this happens, this spell will become useful. There's lots of support, so let's hope so.
Verdict: Meh for now, hopefully decent soon.

Unfetter - good defensive spell. Useful against mages who like to wiz mark you. Especially good since it can be used in safe, so you don't have to fight to remove the wiz marks on you, or to stop them from following you.
Verdict: Very useful right now. If it becomes a combat spell - pretty much defeats the point. I'd go so far as to rate it Meh, if that happens.

Alright, so that sums up shaman pretty well. If I missed any then sorry, I wasn't online looking at practice when I wrote this.

Here's how I see it: shaman always get screwed over with a give/take relationship for their skills - or they just get straight up useless ones to begin with. No other class is like this.
People are complaining because shaman finally got a decent spell in unfetter, and everyone is screaming "UNFAIR!". First of all, I don't think unfetter is unfair. Secondly, I DO think mages have a ton of unfair spells, but they've been around so long that it's just become accepted. Look at the number of classes played - shaman is definitely the least of the 3 main magic classes. There is a reason for this.

Also, people argue that shaman is one dimensional for pk'ing and that's why they're so underplayed - so help change this!! Fixing soul sense, giving taste and locate corpse, and making corpses last longer would be a good start. So is leaving unfetter the way it is.

And finally, the reason we hear so many complaints against shaman and less support is because.. DUN DUN DUN most people play mage or cleric (SURPRISE!!!!). Why? See above.

**Kylor** · February 17th, 2011

I didn't even read most of this crap and I bet most other people won't either. I read your verdicts and decided if I agreed as i went which I do for the most part but the bubble burster is that in the end you are totally wrong, tons of peopl ply shamans, shamans are landing kills, and there are alot of new characters that are shaman so they can't suck too bad.

**Cecil** · February 17th, 2011

What I love about all the recent complaining about unfetter is that all the mages seem to think they have some sort of entitlement to their wiz marks. As if being able to get the jump on their opponent any place, any time is their class-given right. So there is a spell that makes you have to walk? Sounds like the mages are upset now that they're finally getting a taste of their own medicine. Dodge the shaman in safe so you don't lose your marks......just like everyone else has been having to try to dodge mages in safe forever. Is losing your wiz marks a bummer? Yes. Does it really incapacitate your character that much? Not at all. Just don't rely so heavily on portal......simple.

**morgaine** · February 18th, 2011

I agree with only some of the points here..... I feel like a lot of information was left out. For Instance I can break absorb in one shot but its going to cost me 100 mana. Cloak only stops 120 dmg.... well... I've seen this combined with 30 da, sanctuary, and protection evil... Its tough when everytime you break teh shamans cloak he flees and recasts it for merely 15 mana. Exclude is an incredible spell. Its not used all the time and its very expensive, but it is incredibly useful, what shaman spells does it stop? Hailstorm and thunderclap? This can't be cast indoors anyway right... so those spells are already somewhat limited. Soul sense - see's everyone... weather they are wearing a lvl 40 invis item that no one else can see, or in long hide. Phosphate - natural rooms are more common then unnatural rooms for sure .... also most zones have narrow entrances making phosphate very useful. There are a ton of PK tactics that revolve around phosphate as well. It is hard for me to weigh on unfetter because no one has cast it on me in a combat situation.

I want to add that when the 2 handers in one hand thing gets implemented, we will surely see more shamans.

**Teluin** · February 18th, 2011

Re: Morgaine

I wasn’t trying to leave anything out, it just became a super long post.

Absorb - First of all, in this day and age, everyone can spare the 100mana to break the absorb. It’s really not a big deal.

Cloak - you still have to flee to do it, and what if you're stuck in a room or on the offensive? - plus most shaman aren't 30da carrying around protection potions and have sanc on them all the time. Cloak is ok, but I don't see why it doesn't absorb that little bit of damage when it breaks, that's the only change I think it needs.

Exclude - it is a really weird spell - sometimes it will only last 1 or 2 ticks and others it will last the length it’s supposed to. Either way, there’s a good chance you fail tons of times casting it before it works. Thunderclap can be used indoors.

Soul sense - let's you know, IN THE ROOM, that someone or something is also there. There's over 8k rooms in the game, and I said as a detect invis/TS equivalent, it sucks. You can't deny that.

Phosphate - I dunno if I agree with the first statement, but the second statement no way. You go vis, sneak past the first few rooms, then re-invis once you’re inside. Bam, they're screwed. I also said as an equiv to (even when you pair it with the suckiness that is soul sense), it is nothing.

And you might be right about the 2h thing, but that's BECAUSE of the 2h aspect, not the fact the class is suddenly as good or even comparable to mage or cleric. Especially in the sense of versatility.

Re: Kylor

You're wrong. Oh, and I had said compared to the other classes far less people play shaman, so yeah, you're wrong.

**Kylor** · February 18th, 2011

I actually am not wrong at all... enoch, pharuin, syndelle, kail, zephiel, teluin, wistom, drauglin, tirpitz, galactus blah blah blah on and on, tons of people are playing their shamans and/or making new shamans, tons! I see more shamans now then I have in a very long time and this is going to continue to grow too especially once the 2H thing goes in. and absorb may be easy to break but that means your FIRST spell doesn't get through which helps and tons of tactics like sleep for example. fact is shamans are not the lesser of the spell casting classes they just have a different purpose, when it comes to head on fighting, shamans rock.

**Tynian** · February 18th, 2011

Quickie class count. This includes characters that have logged in within the last month, and are at least effective level 10. Note that this doesn't take actual activity into account.

name	total

warrior	123

mage	101

thief	94

cleric	85

ranger	85

shaman	48

bard	30

thug	19

om	8

**Teluin** · February 18th, 2011

Let's look at the activity rankings.

8. Enoch. Next person on your list... 25. Pharuin (also the next active shaman). Then we got 29. Blackmist, and 31. Pitt. 34. Kail. 36. Grim 39. Tirpitz 42. Wistom 68. Shorty. 83. Arcanum. 87. Odie. 90. Syndelle (why'd you mention this person??), 92. Ianto. 94.Orgrim.

Where's Teluin?? Not even on the list :P Neither's Galactus. Oh and Zephiel's not either.

So of the ONE HUNDRED most active players, FOURTEEN play a shaman. Several of which are sub 20. That means 14% of the most active people are shaman (Thanks math!). And SEVEN of those (50%) are under the top 50 most active.

As a note Kylor, I'd like to be playing as Teluin more but shaman are so one-dimensional that I just don't right now. I would love to though if they got tweaked a bit.
And regarding absorb: you can break it with a non-aggro spell in or out of safe. I don't know why you're fighting so hard to deny shamans get the short end of the stick on a lot of things. They're so give and take with their spells (I feel like I'm repeating myself), they're the only class who really has to deal with that.

**Teluin** · February 18th, 2011

^^ thanks Tyn

MORE FACTS TO SUPPORT!

**Kylor** · February 18th, 2011

do this again in 30 days, I'm betting the list of active shaman will rise.

**Anduin** · February 18th, 2011

If that happens Kylor, I'd say it's because of the race changes and not the class itself. The class needs some work.

**wistom** · February 18th, 2011

I also think it needs some work and Me being a shaman might look like i am talking about my self but i play other char's and they are better at most things other then as a second class exp partner or just someone to rift in pk's.
I love my CHOO CHOO whistle. I have had it for a long time and would still wear it even if something changed but we lose a slot of eq for a TS amulet. Why doesn't a cleric need to lose a ring slot to cast sanct (like kissing the ring of there immortal for protection) or a mage to lose there held slot to cast portal. (like holding a book to show them how) I know these sound stupid and would never like them put in but no other class loses a slot to an item of eq you kind of have to wear. You don't see many shaman out there without one that are good at really anything staying alive or pking other people.
Meditate was taken away while i was gone this spell was huge while i exp'd because you do get beat up pretty quick and run out of mana from rifting your way though things you could get them back quick.
People don't seem to use the totems anymore because of what teluin said and they cost mana because of changes you have to use them all now to get just alittle bump in stats. I use to set my eq up where i would just use weasle and boar and that was it you got the bonus in dex and str and the other didn't really matter much but now since you lose mana, hp, spell dmg, my good looks they are not worth casting all of them to get the bonus that you do i haven't tested them all but just seems like a huge pain for the gain you can get in gear pretty easy.
I don't really know how to fix it so it is more fair maybe the race 2 hander will help but it won't help the dwarf warrior thief shaman like Wistom. So it is a shaman problem not a race problem.
Maybe you leave absorb the way it is bump cloak some or give us some sort of ac helping spell for exping. Help soul sense some but what i don't know. Also re-work the totems so there was less of them or the bonus for using them was greater.
The good things about a shaman are pretty simple.

Rift best dmg spell in the game but during pk's Dispel evil/good is strong as well.

Cloak pk's doesn't help much unless you are wearing DA or see the person coming to cast the other spells. Most people hit hard enough now that it doesn't give ya much of a buffer but during exp solo not a great help unless fighting easy mobs because things hit you hard enough at a big level you still take a good deal of dmg but in a group it is great have someone set up a rescue trigger and have them rescue you everytime a cloak is broke and you can exp for days.

exclude Great for fighting certain mobs but also you can get that spell cast on you from your immortal for that once in a blue moon you need it (i know i can get a sanct from them to but i don't need that every once in a while) Plus it doesn't last long and I have casted it a ton and I am at good or very good so we mess it up alot

**Whistler** · February 19th, 2011

30 bards, really?

but back to the subject. yes, shamans do have some useless spells. so do clerics, so do mages. would i like to see new shaman spells, yeah, sure, but they're fine for combat spells.

I would like to see totems work a little differently than they do currently though.

i'd like to see a bunch of new totems, like skunk (fear aura&-chr), otter (wb), armadillo (da), wolf (move and eat corpse), snake (dex and poison att) etc.

each shaman should choose a SINGLE totem animal to be thier primary animal, and either should be restricted to use of that totem exclusively-OR that totem should cast it at +lvls and cast nonprimary totems at -lvls. (the mouse spirit isn't too happy about helping out the shaman that serves the owl spirit.)

it would also be nice if the help file actually told you what exactly the totems did... "gains the benefits and penalties of the owl" ok...so i got what, infravision and fly? nope, i can't fly...

i'm gonna run with this and start a separate thread. my two pence.

-

**Anduin** · February 19th, 2011

^ have the new ideas for shaman spells really been about combat Whistler? I don't think so... soul sense improvement, locate corpse, taste... the only thing I could think of is the people trying to make unfetter a purely offensive spell instead of a defensive spell as it is.

**Kylor** · February 20th, 2011

I can't believe you just said unfetter is a purely defensive spell, I can think of tons and tons of ways to use it offensively. You mean ripping a mages ability to portal while removing his ability to communicate AND stripping him of his group has no offensive value??? are you insane? and above all you can do it debt free from a safe room and you think this isn't offensive? HERE is an idea to help balance this problem with the over powered shaman. give mages the ability to teleport targets to any of their wizard marks directly. since unfetter destroys wizard marks then it shouldn't be no problem right...

**Lycron** · February 20th, 2011

Spending my mortal days as a shaman I think Teluin raises a few solid arguments, one being the totems are worthless. I'd rather just see the three of them gone for strength IMO, or maybe a spell that would let you boost wisdom a little past max for more powerful rifts (provided you were all ready at MAX wis, and not MAX in score either - you know what I mean!) -- Secondly, I also agree with exclude being a sucky spell. For what it does, it isn't worth 100 mana; it is impossible it seems to get it above good and it doesn't last long. Even in a situation where it would be useful, it will probably drop before you even finish the battle. I think the Shaman's offensive spells are pretty good, but defensive is pretty meh'. I agree absorb is broken too easily, and cloak - 100/200hp isn't much considering some people can do that much damage within 2 rounds. Perhaps either upping the hps absorbed, or at least maybe halving damage for X amount of ticks. Kind of like sanctuary but perhaps restricted to physical combat as opposed to spells. I dunno... just a few thoughts. The fact people don't play shamans much does seem to indicate something.

**Anduin** · February 20th, 2011

Originally Posted by Kylor

I can't believe you just said unfetter is a purely defensive spell, I can think of tons and tons of ways to use it offensively. You mean ripping a mages ability to portal while removing his ability to communicate AND stripping him of his group has no offensive value??? are you insane? and above all you can do it debt free from a safe room and you think this isn't offensive? HERE is an idea to help balance this problem with the over powered shaman. give mages the ability to teleport targets to any of their wizard marks directly. since unfetter destroys wizard marks then it shouldn't be no problem right...

I didn't say it was purely defensive.

**Kylor** · February 21st, 2011

if you guys wanna make shamans more playable I can see that, but all this talk of making them more powerfull is crazy, they are already the most powerfull head to head fighters

**Anduin** · February 21st, 2011

All I've been doing is trying to make them more playable. I don't even know which idea you're referring to that would make them insanely powerful to be honest.