New change to spells

[Cadee]

Since wis and int now helps spells do more damage or be at a higher level, tsamulets are pretty much worthless. This is a big problem for the classes that don't have detect invis or true seeing of their own and must rely on the amulets.
My tsamult use to be able to see a level 30 mage's regular invis, now I can't. I think that since the spells were changed then the ability to counter the spells should be increased as well.

Either make tsamultes affected by the wearer's int/wis or make them 'higher' across the board.

[Tynian]

Interesting thought.

[Maerad]

Since wis and int now helps spells do more damage or be at a higher level, tsamulets are pretty much worthless. This is a big problem for the classes that don't have detect invis or true seeing of their own and must rely on the amulets.
My tsamult use to be able to see a level 30 mage's regular invis, now I can't. I think that since the spells were changed then the ability to counter the spells should be increased as well.

Either make tsamultes affected by the wearer's int/wis or make them 'higher' across the board.

Eh...I'm not too sure I agree with this. TS Amulets are not worthless. They do what they are supposed to do - provide the wearer with the ability to see things unseen by most, up to a certain level (whatever level the amulet is). In my opinion, once a mage reaches level 30 - since it is the highest level right now - the mage is considered to be a master of his/her craft. Would it not make sense that a master would be able to have a higher level invis than a piece of jewelry? I like that a level 30 invis can't be seen by a level 30 TS Amulet, and I'm not even a mage.

[Avarice]

I think maerad made a good point. Considering how important invis is to actually killing people as a mage, I'd rather see it stay the way it is now. Mages have to sacrifice other stats in order to wear the wis it takes to beat a 30ts. Frankly if we make it too easy to spot invis we're right back to the situation we had prior to the wis/int changes in some respects. Most pk's a mage gets are because the target never sees it coming....if they're ready and waiting for it the mage either gets no opportunity to even try, or ends up getting killed. Just my thoughts on the matter, obviously my OM invis is so small the nightmares in vtx see it so its just a waste of mana.

[kehrindrek]

i side with maerad on this one. in fact i feel that ts amulets are far too available as it is. it seems not uncommon that many mid-size characters carry good-size ts amulets. not to mention how much shamans depend a level 30+ ts amulet which i find frankly kind of boring.

i think that big mages rangers and thieves should be much less visible than they are now to those who cannot ordinarly without assistance see them.

kehr votes to remove all ts amulets from the game. oh and maybe the stats page too. and throw the shamans a bone by making phosphate indiscriminate of natural or unnatural setting. hehe

[Hiro]

Gotta side with Maerad and Avarice here as well. If im willing to give up slots for wis equipment I should be able to reap the awards.

Hiro

[Arella]

I agree that mages sacrifice other eq to wear wis to make their invis better, and a level 30 mage is the master of their class. However a level 30+ ts amulet shouldn't be a weak piece of eq. The whole point of the wis/int changes was to increase the use of eq other than dmg/hr/da. I think it achieved this very well, but it managed to make named amulets less than half their orignal usefullness. Shamans, bards and non magic classes *must* rely on tsamults to see mages. I do not think that they should have all chances of survival stripped from them because the mage is wearing a 3wis piece of eq instead of a 3dmg.
Seems very unfair to me, from a mage pov and from the pov of other classes.

[Maerad]

The whole point of the wis/int changes was to increase the use of eq other than dmg/hr/da. I think it achieved this very well, but it managed to make named amulets less than half their orignal usefullness.

Is that really such a bad thing?

Shamans, bards and non magic classes *must* rely on tsamults to see mages. I do not think that they should have all chances of survival stripped from them because the mage is wearing a 3wis piece of eq instead of a 3dmg.
Seems very unfair to me, from a mage pov and from the pov of other classes.

Yes, it's true that shamans, bards, and non magic classes must rely on TS amulets, but I don't think you're right in saying that they have all chances of survival stripped from them. Anyone can look at the stats page and see "hey, there's a mage on I can't see - crap" like I do almost every day when Menelaos is on, because even pumped to 350 my TS can't see him.

I still say the classes are different for a reason. Shamans can play like Totec and pink every single room in LL if they really wanted to see high level mages. Bards can learn detect invis (I think, I don't know too much about bards). Clerics can level up and pump their TS. Not having a spell defense to see mages is the price that non-magic classes pay. Brawns over brain, and all that.

Please don't change the TS amulets!

[Arella]

Is that really such a bad thing?

Yes, I personally think it is.

[dun]

well still theres always someone that doesn't like an idea and i dont like this one as a mage, i mean whats the use of being a mage if your getting spotted by anyone with a ts amulet, btw i love the int/wis change :P

[kehrindrek]

upon further consideration i still stand by my initial argument that mages thieves and rangers should be less visible than they are now but i would also like to hear what abilities bards can have for detection. i've never played a bard so i don't really understand how bard memorization and spells work but i would be concerned for the packaged triple-class of bard if they are lacking in some type of detection since they are part magic caster. also i think those without magic classes should have to live without having any innate detection/revealing powers.

oh and let's remove the stats page. fun fun fun!

[Avarice]

Kehrindrek brings up a great point. I bet Morgaine will even agree with me on this and we've already altered it somewhat but...
REMOVE THE STATS PAGE ENTIRELY WOOP!

Seriously, its one thing as a mage/ranger/thief/shaman/etc, but for us ordained types (particularly the active ones *sigh*) we stand out like a sore thumb on newspage. Theres NEVER really more than 3 of us on at any given time that I've ever seen. A HUGE aspect of being OM is having obscure, which is totally defeated by newspage snoopers. And mostly everyone who plays these days knows enough to keep an eye out for it. I'm not even active OM and I'm saying it really, really has to go. IT was really bad before, its SLIGHTLY less bad now but honestly the current stats page just helps people avoid conflict on a text based game.

The thing we need to really embrace on tfc is that ultimately death should happen to EVERYONE. I don't care if you're a super skilled veteran pk'er or a brand new player, losing a corpse here or there doesn't ruin the experience at all. I would also agree with the folks who have irreplaceable items that it sucks losing them....but its STILL just a game. Half the time those irreplaceable items are given away when u decide its time to retire. REmove the stats page. Encourage pk. Encourage eq turnover and so forth. Spice it up and people will play and play more often!

p.s. TS ammy being limited is just fine don't change it, theres too many big ones cuz they never get sacced and shamans and muggles and bards aren't SUPPOSED to be high level mages that can see everything!

[morgaine]

lol, I do agree to this point.... newspage info i.e. class discriptions, place an extreme limit on the oppertunity an OM has to stay hidden. Even other classes stand out like a red thumb, i once remember reading a reply from maerad stating how he stays in safe or logs whenever theres a mage on he cant see, because he knows its menelaos.... this is rather discouraging for pk oriented players....not just OM's like myself.

-Morgaine

[Razzaq]

Channel the power of the Immortals to see things usually unseen.

I do not necessarily think that True Seeing or even detect invis should be able to see a high level invis. But I do think that when a person is invis you could probably tell that they are there. The higher the level the less likely you will give yourself away. I might even go as far to suggest that you could see their aura.

<invis> someone is here.
<blue aura> someone is here.

The higher the level of the detect the higher percentage chance you will see them. The higher the invis the less information they will get.

A level 30 TS has a chance to see invis:

Level 1 100%
Level 2 95%
Level 3 85%
etc.

Im just rambling now, but its the beginning of a good idea maybe.

[Avarice]

menelaos said it best, even other classes stand out on newspage. I guess its just extreme in the case of OM's because they are far more rare. For what its worth, there are so many ways built into the game to avoid being surprised already I think the current stats page is *almost* redundant. Anyone can go to mok and check for a pesky pk'er, they can use phos spell/scroll/spheres, alarm spells/spheres and in the case of OM's, they can just ask another person if they see so and so....

With all the in-game features to reveal an unseen person, do we really NEED to make it that much more impossible to surprise someone? Taking away the element of surprise kills one of the more important aspects of the game imho.

[Belsambar]

I don't think TS's should change. Everyone else has made very valid points,
and I agree with them all. There's ways to see a mage, find em if you're worried.

[Tynian]

Everyone else has made very valid points,
and I agree with them all.

Strictly speaking, can you agree with them all? Some conflicted, didn't they?

[Belsambar]

Alright, maybe not ALL all of them, but regardless, I think the spells/ammies are perfect as they are. I kinda like the thought that I can reg invis and actually be unseen...sometimes I don't WANT to be seen, hehe

[hork]

since were on the subject, i think God invis should be more potent now. i can now see god invis without pumping my detect.

[Sarai]

since were on the subject, i think God invis should be more potent now. i can now see god invis without pumping my detect.

I disagree with this. A 30 mage is certainly enitiled to have mastered the realm of being/seeing invis. So it makes sense a shaman wouldn't necessarily be able to see them. I do feel however this makes shaman next to useless. Mages and Clerics wearing wis/int can hit close to what rift does, and let's face it, shaman get the worst arsenal of spells. So I don't have a problem with a 30 +TS seeing a 30 invis, 29 a level 29 invis, etc.