Alignment

[Magdelan]

Allow Unaligned characters to choose a "semi-permanent" aura. If this were possible an unaligned character could have the spell base and benefits of a good or evil or neutral, as well as the fall backs. The aura would be a one time choice that would last forever unless the character convinces a god of a different aura to let them join the following.

I brought up this idea because there might be characters that desire the role playing aspect and strategies of an alignment, but do not wish to hold alliances with other goods/evils/neutrals.

[Thor]

I like the idea, in principle, of being able to be good, but not in a following. But you were talking about gaining the good only spells, at least I think you were. If you were, how would you justify getting those? Most of the are specifically based on having a god that you worship. Two example are bless and turning:

BLESS
A cleric can call on his god to aid your endeavors with magical protection.

Bless is available to:
Clerics : level 5. Good.
Ordained : level 13. Good.

TURNING
Use the might of your god to destroy or free a ghost... if you can control
enough of your god's power to affect it.

Turning is available to:
Clerics : level 12. Neutral. Good. Evil.
Ordained : level 9. Neutral. Good. Evil.


Both make reference to "your" god. UAs don't really have a god. Granted when you sacrifice something it does go to Ivorytiger, but you don't really worship him.

[Cadee]

And we could also make something like an ftell so that all the good aligned unaligned characters can talk to one another without the evil aligned unaligned characters being able to catch any of it. While we are at it, why not just do away with the whole immortal system. I mean who needs FLIs when you can just pick which alignment you want to be and get all the perks of being good/evil without a following.

If this were possible an unaligned character could have the spell base and benefits of a good or evil or neutral, as well as the fall backs. .... characters that desire the role playing aspect and strategies of an alignment, but do not wish to hold alliances with other

So they just get some of the fall backs? If they did not wish to hold 'alliances with others' yet they wanted the 'spell base and benefits' of the alignment...wouldn't that be a major fall back they don't get? Besides your last statement doesn't really make sense, just because both Cordir and DarkClaw have neutral followings does not mean they hold alliances with each other. Same with Isolas and Mystaya.

I vote NO, make the UAs keep their yellow aura until they choose to take on the aura of their chosen god(dess).

[Magdelan]

And we could also make something like an ftell so that all the good aligned unaligned characters can talk to one another without the evil aligned unaligned characters being able to catch any of it. While we are at it, why not just do away with the whole immortal system. I mean who needs FLIs when you can just pick which alignment you want to be and get all the perks of being good/evil without a following.



So they just get some of the fall backs? If they did not wish to hold 'alliances with others' yet they wanted the 'spell base and benefits' of the alignment...wouldn't that be a major fall back they don't get? Besides your last statement doesn't really make sense, just because both Cordir and DarkClaw have neutral followings does not mean they hold alliances with each other. Same with Isolas and Mystaya.

I vote NO, make the UAs keep their yellow aura until they choose to take on the aura of their chosen god(dess).

Is this a contradiction?...

"I mean who needs FLIs when you can just pick which alignment you want to be and get all the perks of being good/evil without a following."

"So they just get some of the fall backs? If they did not wish to hold 'alliances with others' yet they wanted the 'spell base and benefits' of the alignment...wouldn't that be a major fall back they don't get?"

All the perks? You don't get a god... you stated that in your next sentence... thats a pretty BIG perk to miss out on... yet you can still be dispelled, you still loose spells as well as gain spells... theres no lack of balance here... theres no extra benefit to doing this as opposed to joining a following except that you don't have to ally yourself with the members of that following... there are role play opportunities here.

Having a UA ftell is ridiculous, thanks for pointing that out... Though if you notice, I didn't make that suggestion.

There are a lot of benefits from having a god, getting rid of the immortal system is also ridiculous... thanks for pointing that out as well; however, I did not suggest that either.

And also, It does make sense. To be involved with a following aligns you with all other members of that following. Your fellow followers of that god are your allies, not the alliances of that god.



Thor, on the other hand had a rational argument with authentic points. Thanks for taking the idea seriously. Maybe UA's could follow retired immortals... maybe there would be one of each alignment they could sacrifice to, maybe we could use maurice and ivory tiger? ... I don't think the only advantage of this is not having allies... maybe someone wants to be a blue character but isnt sue which immortal to choose and wants to spend time leveling and exploring first... Sometimes Its just hard to catch an immortal online during your playing hours!

Maybe this is just open for too much abuse to implement... But it was just an idea.

[Anonymous Mammal]

Maybe this is just open for too much abuse to implement...

Yes, it would be.

But it was just an idea.

I agree with, and support, this statement.

[hork]

this is similar to something i've thought about before when there were more lowbie campers around sporting benevolence drenched with blood. i thought maybe they should automatically be flagged with a red aura if not in a good following. but yeah. that'd be tough which is the reason why i never mentioned it :P

[Cadee]

Having a UA ftell is ridiculous, thanks for pointing that out... Though if you notice, I didn't make that suggestion.

There are a lot of benefits from having a god, getting rid of the immortal system is also ridiculous... thanks for pointing that out as well; however, I did not suggest that either.

When did I ever say that you suggested it...if anything it would be said that I and not you suggested it.

It was an attempt at sarcasm (which I see was wasted on you) to help show how ridiculous I thought your suggestion was.

The idea of allowing an unaligned character to choose an alignment is in itself a contradiction. I know that many other games dictate alignment based on what you kill or the race that you start, which is somewhat more logical. To be able just to say "I want to be a good aligned unaligned character" is a bit extreme.

Also the idea would not work well at all with the RP aspect of TFC, it is far too easy to change alignments. How would you address the issue of something like a character choosing to be good, joining an evil following, then getting released...should they still be good? That wouldn't make too much sense, now would it? The FLI system is more than just having someone who can hold eq for you and cast spells on you. If you think you want to be good, you have to choose following A or following B. You have to accept the fact that you now have brethren in a united cause. You can't just claim to be good, get the benefits and not have the 'responsibilities' that go along with it. Evil is somewhat of a different story in as much as they are evil, there is often no justification to why they kill who they do and when.

If you are just wanting to be good/evil to get additional spells I do not think it should be allowed. Besides, there are spells and eq that are for unaligned characters that aligned characters can't use.


As for Hork; I think there is something like a killer flag to address that issue. I'm not sure how much it does now, but I know it is still around. There is also the pacifist/miscreant/etc system to help others see somewhat of the character's attitude towards pking.

[Magdelan]

It was an attempt at sarcasm (which I see was wasted on you) to help show how ridiculous I thought your suggestion was.

I was just pointing out how rude it was to trash my idea... considering I don't think you've ever spoken to me on tfc.
The forums is a place to share ideas so that we might improve them together, not insult creativity. I understand sarcasm. I don't understand your logic behind the belief that sarcastic insults belong on a creative forum.

Next time a simple "I don't like your idea" and a little respect would be appropriate.

[Cadee]

There was once a board on tfc for the posting of ideas. It was moved to the forums, I believe to generate feedback and comments on the ideas posted. To see how the general player base feels about before Tynian begins to consider if he likes the idea or not.

Even if you can't see it; I posted what I did for a reason other than just to insult you. The idea of allowing unaligned characters to be aligned is just absurd (even the words tell you that).

I applaud you and those like you for your attempts at making suggestions to make the game better, it would just be nice to see some of the thought through beyond the point of 'oh I like this, it would make things better for me'. By all means feel free to keep posting your ideas; but if you can't take the heat, I would suggest that you do it where no one can see them.

And what does the fact that I've never talked to you in game have to do with anything? Just because we play at different times means that we shouldn't be allowed to have opinions on the same issues.

[Tynian]

I like alignment being related to followings -- that is, not permanent, but rather, based on membership within a following.

[Tay]

I had an idea just before i fell asleep last night, how to maybe, make this idea possible.
Heres the idea
Let a group of people make their own "clan" or "band", must have 5 memebers to choose said alingment, effective levels should be no less than 150 (collectively), must pay (# of gold here) and must have a RP reason...its a way to weed out just anyone forming their own clan of people. but if 5 people share the same alingment views, and are dedicated enough to try and make it work, i say let them, they lose out by not having and Imm anyway

[Belsambar]

I don't think this is a viable idea.

First off, choosing an immortal for your alignment also allows for the general idea that certain actions are a possibility, or in some cases, a guarantee of conduct, just from following that immortal, let alone being in the alignment.

If you can just 'choose' the alignment, there is no guarantee that that 'blue aura' means anything as to how you will actually conduct yourself. IE, you are still free to jack someone on a trade based on your personal scruples...which some people have surprisingly few of.

If you want to put it in an rp perspective, well, speaking as an rp'er, it should be a lot of work. You have to establish your credibility, to PROVE you are of whatever alignment, and once your name is established, then in general regards, you tend to be viewed as that alignment. On wanting abilities to come with that, I do find a minor compromise, but now it requires immortal interaction all the same.

If someone is truly TRULY dilligent to being whichever alignment they wish to be as a 'UA' without an immortal, then they should build their reputation, get to proper levels to show they have a basis of investment in the character, say, minimum effective 25, and maybe go so far as to collect people of the same alignment they wish to portray to back them up with credibility.

Then, maybe a system where they can talk to a god+, and when all conditions are met, be set to the alignment they would like.

Part of the point of this, is if you truly want to portray that alignment, you should be a shining example of what you think that alignment to mean. If you are an overwhelmingly good person, but you just don't agree with the rest of the ethics, then you should be so good and pure that you are a symbol of it to the realm, regardless of aura...then shouldn't you THEN shine with that aura regardless?

Likewise...if you are out to be evil. Be evil. Be really evil. Be really, really evil. You'd want to be the tyrant of the realm, one that the blood of your victims is what has tainted your aura.

Or something of those lines.

But it shouldn't be that easy as 'declaring' yourself good makes you good. It almost isn't that easy when you DO follow an FLI :P