Newbies dying to big mobs with no one around to help.

[Thor]

A level 7 player died earlier in a zone that she had no chance of getting her corpse back by herself. This, I think, is a big reason that we lose true newbies. I know that if I feel like trying out a new mud and something like this happens I usually just say, "Well, that was fun." and leave the mud without much chance of coming back. So, what can we do to make this less of a problem? I don't know if the death was caused by a bad recall or just exploring or what, so let's see if we can brainstorm on a general solution. Here's my thoughts:

Perhaps we can set a limit, maybe something like sub 10, where if a newbie dies and cannot retrieve the corpse on their own they can contract mish to send out minions and get the corpse for the newbie. Mish can then return the corpse to the newbie for a price. If the newbie cannot pay that price at the time, perhaps some form of credit could be extended that they can pay off as they get gold. For example:

A giant warrior is DEAD!!
You receive 0 experience points.
You hear a giant warrior's death cry.
You get 126 gold coins from the corpse of a giant warrior.
80% if this goes to pay off the debt to Mish.
After payment you receive 25 gold coins.

I was thinking use a percentage so that the newbie isn't left totally broke. This way they can still purchase food, recalls, etc...
This, of course, would only work if the newbie died to an NPC. The offer would not be valid for PK deaths.

As an alternative to Mish's minions perhaps Mish could hire a bigger PC. This could be something similar to Algenara's pummel stick quest. Mish could send out a general request for the newbie and PCs could send Mish a tell accepting the quest. Mish could then offer some sort of reward to the PC who returns the corpse. The first PC to accept the quest from Mish would then be allowed to pick up the corpse without being grouped with the sub 10 newbie. However, the PC would not be allowed (enforced by code) to remove anything from the corpse. The newbie corpse would effectively become like a ND item. It could only be given to Mish. It would also need to not decay so that the big player couldn't just hold it until the eq fell to the floor. In place of decay perhaps, after a time, the big PC could start to receive fines. Once the corpse is given to Mish, the newbie can get the corpse as described above.

We could even have both options in case there are either no other PCs on at the time, or there are no willing PCs on.

I know there are ways this could be abused. To help avoid this perhaps we could set a limit, like how many times you can use this service per level. And the cost to the newbie could go up each time. Things like that.

What are your thoughts?

[Tamar]

Don't we already have re-equip?

[Thor]

Don't we already have re-equip?

I knew of the service, but to be honest I don't know any details of it. Although, I don't think it's as extensive as what's proposed above. If it is, newbies should be made more aware of it. I know I didn't know anything about it until I was nearly eff 50. (Though that could be my own fault.)

[Tylin]

Don't we already have re-equip?

We do, but in all honesty most have no idea it exists. We have no ambassadors, few people who take the time to help newbies out, (Thank you to those that do,) and what's sad fewer immortals who will vis to newbies to see if they need help. (Once again, to those that do, thank you.) Plus people are under the impression that almost everyone new char created is not a true newbie so people never want to help them. (Heh, to be honest I've created a newbie and acted like a newbie just to see who would help me or if I'd get support for anything. To my great disappointment no one on at the time did.) I've always been in favor of a permanent ambassador of sorts, personally I'm shocked to have never seen it even tried since the decrease in the staying-newbie population. It'd be their job to help those newbies and inform them of tips and tricks and items they would be allowed to reveal. Even if they die to a big mob and no code was put in to get their corpse, someone would be there to tell them it isn't the end of the world. And they would be able to watch them to make certain they are entering commands correctly, or using commands such as flee, and if not they could teach them.

Most people mortals and immortals alike, are greedy and selfish and once they attain some level they want, they could care less about the newer people - they only care about their following, or their gear and friends, or the next level - they feel they don't have the time to help that little person or someone else will do it. That's why a perma-ambassador would be great. The newbies would be their sole duty, they don't level, they don't worry about gear, they can of course talk to friends, but those newbies come first...I'm sure there are several out there willing to take that job.

Sorry, I feel like I might have hi-jacked the thread for another topic, but I feel it is linked in some respect. As for the idea, I like it, but it would need to be more known than reeq is today. It would be hard to get the idea of Mish across to a true newbie as the entire world is new to them, and in the end, they'll need someone to help them.

[Solaron]

Don't we already have re-equip?

You might as well be naked as to wear the gear the re-equip command gives you.

[Tynian]

It's been a while since I've looked at the reequip equipment. It can probably be beefed up.

[Tay]

i like helping the young most of the time, when Tynian asked me to do a CR for some level 7 that lost thier corpse in candlespyre of all places i jumped on it, grabbed an invis and headed to the zone, after i got there and finnaly found it i realized i need to be grouped, so i had to go allll the way back then get back to the corpse.

i say have a "newbie mode" that a character of decent standing and enough levels, can go into.sort of like....transformers....would change the class title to HELPER and would help the newish players, they cannot spell anyone above level 10, nor attack anyone, they should get basic leveling helping spells, ie. bless shield armor imp invis

[Tylin]

i like helping the young most of the time, when Tynian asked me to do a CR for some level 7 that lost thier corpse in candlespyre of all places i jumped on it, grabbed an invis and headed to the zone, after i got there and finnaly found it i realized i need to be grouped, so i had to go allll the way back then get back to the corpse.

You were one of the few that I noticed help. For instance - you helped me get a newbie an enchanted weapon a month or so back Which btw thanks again!

[Nicademus]

I have suggested in the past (primarily on immchannel) that all active FLIs have the ability to cast helpful spells or assist players under the levels of 8-10. Obviously this is open for abuse, but perhaps there could be some spells or ways to assist a non-follower sub-10. The advantage to this, is that it also acts as a recruiting mechanism. A newbie will never forget the god that came to their rescue and would certainly pledge their aliegance.

Alternatively, I have suggested and even offered to act as a newbie ambassador of sorts, with the ability to provide guidance regarding what types of eq a newbie should be wearing and some spells. This idea was not met well and I will not elaborate on it further.

-Nic

[Cordir]

Something that I have done in the past, and continue to do, is assist newbies via temporary worship.

Specifically: when I see a newbie who has been mobkilled in a spot where their corpse is (reasonably) unrecoverable (ie, no followers on, no one around to help), etc, I will go and have a chat with them. I will offer my help, and explain that code does not permit me to directly assist non followers. We'll discuss the options for a bit, and I will make the suggestion to them that they worship, but that I will not 'accept' their worship. In this state, they can be given spells and equipment.

I will get them on their feet again, and chat with them about their options for the future. If, when they get a little more familiar with the mud and its interworkings, the complexity of alliances/enemies/alignment/etc, they want to quest to become a full member of Fate, then I welcome that opportunity. Otherwise, I log off to break the worship or I reject them, if it's not convenient to log off. The only detriment of this situation is that code prevents them from worshipping me again, for a period of 'quite some time' - months, I think.

In this way, I can help keep eq circulating on the mud (ie, not be a massive storage character), I can be newbie friendly, giving help to them with spells and such, and to lead my followers by example.

-Cordir

(Post script: before anyone grows concerned, yes, this is perfectly "legal," within the rules, and it's something that Tynian Himself has witnessed and we've discussed.)

[boromir]

Greetings!

It might be easier for purposes of helping newbies to retreive their corpses from with this idea. This would be where a level 9 or less newbies' corpse appears in a 'cemetary' or something of that nature in their hometown where they can retrieve their eq (the gold is 'used' to defray recovery charges ) from their corpse. Level 10 or greater loses that option and will need to be more responsible for their own acts of stupidity.

Your considerd thoughts and opinions?

[Furnock]

2 Statements from Madman ring in my ears whenever I see something proposed to make things 'easier'.

1) What part of Challenge didn't you hear?
2) It's only EQ.
&
3) Demons have invaded the GWR! You have 10 mins to clear them or I enable Global Rift (ok this one doesn't apply but it still haunts me)

I have 2 ideas -
1) Advertise Re-Equip so more know about it.
2) New NPC, The Undertaker. Mish is busy with many other duties.

Make the Undertaker a 1 per continent position.

Use:
### Lowbielvl5 has died in the Cavern of Vile Rune.

who
5WA Lowbielvl5
30CL 30WA 30TG Nobody, who will help you. UBERTWINK

Undertaker says 'You look a little naked there, Lowbielvl5. I can have your corpse delivered for burial'
Undertaker says 'Shipping an entact corpse is costly. Since you a little strapped for cash, I have work you can do. Deliver Tabbor's Spear to Mish'

Lowbielvl5 goes out and locates the LIMITED item requested and deivers i to Mish. Mish replies with a smarmy, half thank you and presents Lowbielvl5 with a Toe Tag. Toe Tag is traded for Lowbielvl5's corpse.

[Anduin]

Pol needs to start helping newbies! geez, take a lesson from everyone else and help more newbies. Or was it that everyone should take a lesson from Pol? No, I think I had it right the first time

[Pol]

Newbies....bah! Let 'em suffer!

Pol O'Song, the Bloodthirsty Unhelpful Selfish Meanie of Fate.

[Katerina]

I like some of the ideas around automating the process for newbie corpse retrieval. I think most folks are willing to help a newbie when able, but there are always times when we can't/won't or aren't asked and times the newbie doesn't want help (again).

I agree with the sentiment that "it's just eq" but for a newbie who's established a (ok, probably not terribly great) set or a weapon, sometimes it doesn't feel like just eq.

Perhaps it makes sense to allow newbies to buy back a few items from corpse, through Mish or an Undertaker. It may just be the weapon and that really nice item someone handed him that the newbie wants back. There may be limits on how many times per level a pc can buy back eq or have corpse retrieved through an automated service.

This shouldn't replace our communal need to reach out and help newbies, of course.

[Anonymous Mammal]

This shouldn't replace our communal need to reach out and help newbies, of course.

The problem is that the newbie dies when there is no one around to help them. An automated corpse retrieval service of some sort would help this situation greatly. If someone is around, great. They can reach out for help. Whether or not someone WILL help them is another story. If people are around but no one offers to help or just ignores the newbie, they can still rely on the automated service. It's a win-win situation.